Wednesday, 13 April 2022

Alternate Best Actor 1997: Mark Wahlberg in Boogie Nights

Mark Wahlberg did not receive an Oscar nomination for portraying Eddie Adams better known as Dirk Diggler in Boogie Nights.

Mark Wahlberg's acting career is certainly an acting career that exists. One marked, no pun intended there, of frequent miscasting or just straight forward and usually forgettable performances as "stoic lead". The performances that are beyond "okay" from him all actually fulfill a similar tonal quality, that being the mostly comic performance though with potential dramatic intention. That was the case with his work in I Heart Huckabees, the best part of that largely indulgent effort, his Oscar nominated turn in The Departed, which was a serious film however his role as built on caustic comedy, but his crowning achievement of this is here in what was his breakout film role in Boogie Nights. The very nature of this performance is fascinating in that it is a good performance that is largely about giving a bad performance. Wahlberg excels in this role of playing, Eddie who later calls himself Dirk Diggler as a porno "star", by very much embracing the character as really a bit of an idiot to put it lightly. And while there is dramatic elements here, I'll just go with the more straight forward praise first of just praising the comedic mastery of Wahlberg's work in making Dirk a proper meathead whose prized possession is...well I'll avoid too graphic of innuendo and say that it has something also to do with meat. 

A great deal of Wahlberg's performance is purely finding the humor in just how thick headed Dirk is as this supposed star role. There are the comical phases of his performance that are indeed hilarious in portraying different sides of this sort vapid quality. This is from his earliest time as the young club worker who catches the eye of porn director Jack Horner (Burt Reynolds). Wahlberg's performance works by just portraying the wide eyed optimism about Dirk that is indeed quite thin, and comical because of how completely naive he seems to be in reaction to the whole world of porn that he finds himself suddenly. This switches quickly to Dirk trying to make a name for himself which Wahlberg performs though initially with the utmost earnestness, a just people pleasing energy and an upbeat quality of someone seemingly just trying to "perform well". This as even in his initial scene of speaking to one up Reed Rothchild (John C. Reilly), initially rival though he accepts his place as Diggler's sidekick, Wahlberg's lack of anything caustic as he kind of attempts to stay in step with their one up man ship in their weight training skills is even done with the this wide eyed smile. Wahlberg's performance is so aggressively wholesome that it really is just perfect as this contrast to the nature of the world they are in which is typically considered as far from traditionally wholesome as one typically considers.

Wahlberg's second phase is as Dirk Diggler becomes the star, which at first Wahlberg makes likable enough in still keeping the earnest energy about him as he comes across with big ideas and is very gracious with acceptance speech at the Adult Movie Awards. Wahlberg's performance remains hilarious though because there is this sense of delusion of grandeur in it, although still more endearing just as there's a complete lack of sense of reality in his delivery of describing his idea for a "James Bond" style porn series or attempting to make porn seem more than it is at every moment. This alludes though to the change of the following year once Dirk has become established and his ego has gone through the roof. Wahlberg remains hilarious though in portraying a man completely now driven by ego still with no true sense of self or most of reality. Wahlberg properly goes all in on this as he brings such a sincerity in his stupid pre-performance "kung fu" ritual or perhaps my favorite moments, the ones where Dirk discusses "the craft". There Wahlberg brings such a perfect kind of pompousness as he says a whole lot of nothing yet the key to this is there isn't a hint of doubt in his performance. It is all of someone who genuinely believes he's amazing, which in turn makes it hilarious as he's anything but. This is only exacerbated as he truly believes he can do no wrong even dismissing the always supportive Jack. A scene that Wahlberg portrays with the proper lack of depth showing someone just wholly controlled by ego in the moment, and every word of his bravado spoken as someone truly without thought. 

Really what we get then is the naturally logical follow through for Diggler as someone who believes he can do no wrong, therefore he can create "great" music, or should I really say magic. Scenes that are pure comic gold, thanks in part due to Wahlberg's musical performance, that is um...let's say not good in the traditional sense, but the most hilarious of bad singing one can witness. The key to it all though isn't just that he sings poorly, it is that Wahlberg sings poorly with just SO MUCH confidence. Now let's reverse back quickly as I'm written entirely about the comic qualities of Wahlberg's work, which is true, but to his credit, there is more than just a great comic turn here. There is behind everything that Diggler is, is the sad truth of a young man just looking for acceptance, which we initially see he gets none of from his verbally abusive mother. That scene, an outlier in tone early in the film, though I think effectively so, is the chief motivator. Wahlberg's terrific in the abusive scene actually because he still shows that same simplicity in Diggler even in this reaction, that is just of a straight forward heartbreak. What is actually rather powerful in this is that Wahlberg shows the questioning of his mom with that same earnestness but in distress as he can't understand his mother's cruelty. In turn though this gives easy understanding to the young man finding any acceptance he can, and in turn his relationship with Amber Waves (Julianne Moore), who likes to be everyone's mother, has this simple yet potent logic to it. With her Wahlberg shows someone just looking for the basic affection no more no less, not a complicated relationship but one honestly based on Diggler's pain. 

That dramatic note returns as Diggler falls on hard times away from Jack, and tries to make money any way he can, including prostituting himself. Wahlberg is amazing in the scene frankly as he shows just the intensity of the distress as Diggler cannot perform in any way, and shows the ego of Diggler lost as he all that confidence fades away. He becomes the young man berated by his mother again, which is only exacerbated by an anti-homosexual mob beating Diggler afterwards. Diggler falling to rock bottom leading to what is a scene that technically has a dramatic layer, but is still very funny, as Diggler goes along with Reed and their drug procuring "friend" Todd (Thomas Jane) to rob drug dealer Rahad Jackson (Alfred Molina). Wahlberg's performance in this scene is just great in largely reactionary moments as you perhaps see the greatest depth in Diggler, as Wahlberg eyes finally convey this sense of realization in Diggler as he seems to finally notice how far he's fallen. Wahlberg's honestly great in portraying finally just a hint of depth in the thick mind of Diggler in a way that feels natural to the character we've been following all along. This leading only to Diggler to be able to finally reconcile with Jack, which Wahlberg performs back to showing the sweetness of the early Diggler, mixed in with the late Diggler now with a much stronger degree of modesty due to his hubris laden fall. Although Wahlberg would not go onto to be a great actor, this is a pitch perfect performance by Wahlberg. It is a marvelous comic turn built on a shallow character, however when depth is needed, Wahlberg is more than game to find it in this wonderful performance.

58 comments:

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Any upgrades on this viewing.

Can't wait for Winstone next.

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Luke: Reynolds got raised to a 4.5.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Worry not Louis, for Father Stu is truly a comeback role we’ve been waiting fhahahahahahaha, can’t even finish the sentence.

Shaggy Rogers said...

I think the rank of the 5 nominees for best supporting actor of Oscar will be:
1. Forster (5)
2. Reynolds
3. Hopkins
4. Kinnear
5. Williams

Matt Mustin said...

Great performance, and one that probably only PTA could've got out of him. Glad to see Reynolds get an upgrade to.

Lucas Saavedra said...

Louis: your ratings and thoughts on Robert Ridgely? I was very taken aback by his prison scene.

Marcus said...

Louis: Did you rewatch As Good As It Gets yet?

Robert MacFarlane said...

Kind of hoping Kinnear goes all the way to a five. For me it’s one of those performances that very much elevates a role past stock characterization. He could have played up the exasperation and frustration, but there’s a sort of wounded quality that doesn’t feel overplayed. His “big speech” is earned and understated.

Mitchell Murray said...

Wholly agree. Wahlberg really does shine here, and it's perhaps the perfect example of how even a not so great actor can give a great performance.

I also approve of the upgrade to Reynolds, which is still such a fascinating case of a performer finding gold with material they didn't like.

Matt Mustin said...

Robert: He's the best part of a terrible movie, but I don't think I can go with you all the way there.

Calvin Law said...

Speaking of 1997 Supporting, Masato Hagiwara in Cure is very much worth looking into if there is a lineup.

Anonymous said...

For me, I think Helen Hunt's performance is VERY underrated imo. For me, her sitcomy acting actually worked wonders for the film.

Calvin Law said...

Louis: if there were ever to be another adaptation of The Dresser, would you say Hamaguchi would be an interesting choice to take on it.

HTT said...

Love seeing Wahlberg get a 4.5. This is probably my favorite performance of his.

Louis Morgan said...

Luke:

Well we'll be talking more about Cheadle, Reilly, Hoffman, Molina and Jane very soon.

Lucas:

Ridgely - 3.5(Does sleaze quite magnificently with the ease in his early scenes and that skeevy smile as he rather blithely interacts with his vices without hesitation. He's terrific in the prison scene in the ease in his shameful reveal of his even worse vice that he reveals with that particularly unnerving lust about that it is most properly off-putting. He's also good in the moment though in showing the difference of the man without the veneer of a phony respectability and there's just a creep there.)

Calvin:

I mean for a film nothing like the original material maybe, I think Hamaguchi's is a bit too low key for such theatrical material. Although I will say a version set in Japan during World War II would be VERY interesting.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Do you intend to watch Anaconda, would love to know your thoughts on Voight.

Ytrewq Wertyq said...

Voight is worthy of a bonus review on its own once we'll get to supporting.

Louis Morgan said...

Luke:

I've seen parts of it in the past, so I more or less know the score, it isn't exactly top priority for the full watch, but we'll see (after all Gene Siskel did straight faced say he believed Voight was Oscar worthy).

8000S said...

Louis: Your present roles for Setsuko Hara, Machiko Kyo, Hideko Takamine and Isuzu Yamada.

Ytrewq Wertyq said...

Louis: your 10 best Dan Aykroyd moments

Emi Grant said...

Louis: Your thoughts on the Cannes line-up? (Or, those you're really interested in)

Louis Morgan said...

8000's:

I mean sadly my exposure to Japanese cinema of the modern era currently still is rather limited although I will say Hara seems perfect for Kore-eda and Takamine seems perfect for Hamaguchi. On that overall note, feel I should try to check out some of Tatsuya Nakadai's more recent work given he still fairly consistently works, also if Hamaguchi or Kore-eda wants to write an amazing role for Nakadai, just saying that would be really awesome.

Ytrewq:

Well let me watch Gross Point Blank first.

Emi Grant:

Although I didn't love Gray's last film, Armageddon Time with a Hopkins collaboration does get me at least a bit intrigued.

Broker paring Bae Doona and Song Kang-ho with Kore-eda sounds like quite the potential pairing.

Crimes of the Future at the very least could be a potential strong performance from Mortensen again as even though A Dangerous Method didn't work Mortensen at least did. Also Cronenberg returning to horror makes me at the very least cautiously intrigued even though I haven't liked a film from him since Eastern Promises.

Decision to Leave - Park making a film is enough for me, one I probably won't even watch the trailers for unless it is panned or something.

Also look forward to seeing the reception for George Miller's new film (though to be fair his non-Mad Max films aren't typically all that amazing).

8000S said...

Louis: Thoughts on this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ9RlR9Jp3s

Louis Morgan said...

8000's:

Sums up several episodes of the Twilight Zone quite quickly and exactly rather comically.

Ytrewq Wertyq said...

Louis, your thoughts on these original casting choices that ended up not happening:

-Sean Connery as Gandalf in LOTR trilogy
-Rowan Atkinson as Voldmort in Harry Potter movies
-Kevin Kline as Matt Hooper in Jaws and as Bruce Wayne/Batman in 1989 Batman
-Will Smith as Neo in Matrix

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Ytrewq: Voldemort isn't exactly the best written villain, but if Atkinson channeled his Blackadder season 3 performance, that sure would have been something.

Louis Morgan said...

Ytrewq:

Connery - (Depends on the Connery we got, His "In the Name of the Rose" performance really would've been a great Gandalf, a lot of his late performances though are far less than that. I'd like to think Jackson would've gotten the best from him, however I think we won out with him turning it down in favor of the sure thing in McKellen who is hard to separate from the part at this point. I'm not sure that would've been the case for Connery.)

Atkinson- (With Tony Robinson as Peter Pettigrew, Hugh Laurie as Lucius Malfoy, and Stephen Fry as Dumbledore? I'm In!!! Seriously though, um...I mean I'd kind of liked to have seen it, as given he'd have been covered in makeup anyways, maybe Atkinson could've brought something truly inspired there, I won't discount the idea, could've been a brilliant against type.)

Kevin Kline - (Sounds like he wasn't exactly in serious contention for Jaws given he wasn't established in film at that time, although I could see him working there, though not as well as Dreyfuss, as to make it as simple as possible, Dreyfuss's stature I think actually is ideal in making him the smartest man who everyone looks down on, with the rather tall Kline, it would've played differently and I think less well. I mean with Batman, that was not a role that was the actor's friend, Kline has an energy of his own, but I think you need some one who is just truly his own kind of something like Keaton is to have made any kind of impression.)

Smith - (Smith is kind of the opposite of Reeves in terms of the type of star he is, so I think the film would've suffered from Smith trying to make the film more about himself rather than being part of the overall tapestry of it the way Reeves is.)

Calvin Law said...

Liked The Northman quite a bit, not without a few reservations but overall definitely an engaging and thrilling watch. Eggers going large scale definitely paid off, though The Lighthouse still reigns supreme.

Skarsgard: 4.5
Kidman: 4
Bang: 3.5
Taylor-Joy: 3.5/4
Hawke: 3.5
Bjork: 3
Dafoe: 3/3.5

Anonymous said...

Louis: What are the worst films you've seen with a performance that is your win for the year (for each category).

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

I rewatched Minari the other night... and I'm sorry Another Round, but that's easily my favorite 2020 film now.

Bryan L. said...

Louis: Your top ten acting moments for Mahershala Ali & Olivia Colman, plus your past film roles for both of them.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Louis: Thoughts on this scene out of context? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMDDb_XxwjA

Tony Kim said...

Louis - Have you watched Severance, and if so, what are your thoughts on the show and cast?

Also, have you seen Yellowjackets?

Louis Morgan said...

Anonymous:

Lead Actor: I wouldn't consider any film I've given a leading actor win to be outright bad, there are some lesser films where the lead performance is the highlight (Mr. Holmes, Private Life of Henry VIII, Bulldog Drummond, Save the Tiger), but labeling any as "worst" would seem inappropriate.

Lead Actress: Crimes of Passion (woof, the worst altogether.)

Supporting Actor: The Criminal Code (Though if you only watch the Karloff scenes it doesn't seem so bad.)

Supporting Actress: Ship of Fools (Again though if you just watched Signoret and Werner's scenes you'd think you were watching a good movie.)

Bryan:

Colman:

1. Watching dancing - The Favourite
2. Final punishment - The Favourite
3. Explaining what happened - Tyrannosaur
4. Badger - The Favourite
5. Interview for help - The Father
6. Explaining her "deceit" - Landscapers
7. Reasons for liking Abigail - The Favourite
8. On the Stand - Landscapers
9. Dance lesson - The Favourite
10. Comforting dad - The Father

Annie Wilkes
Myra Savage
Laura Jesson

Ali:

1. Explaining the "f word" - Moonlight
2. Swimming - Moonlight
3. Finding the truth yet forgetting - True Detective
4. Confrontation with mom - Moonlight
5. After death of the suspect - True Detective
6. First meeting - Moonlight
7. Re-meeting with Roland west - True Detective
8. Final talk with "self" - Swan Song
9. Meeting the "Big man" - True Detective
10. Final Scene - Luke Cage

Jack Walsh (Midnight Run)
Bill McKay
Joseph Lee (The Scalphunters)

Robert:

Uhh....actually too believable to be entirely satire as I could believe reading such a "legitimate" screed by someone online honestly.

Tony:

I have not.

I watched the first two episodes, didn't quite grab me in the way I typically need a series to for me to continue with it, not that I thought it was bad or anything.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Louis: Here’s the most demented part; It was written in 2015. There’s definitely some family members I know that would probably go on this rant without irony. (Personally, my favorite line is “Jesus was a king first, carpenter second!”)

8000S said...

Louis: Your thoughts on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj6ZfJcyvSE

Tony Kim said...

Louis, based on what little you've seen of Yellowjackets, what were your thoughts and ratings on Melanie Lynskey, Tawny Cypress, Christina Ricci, Juliette Lewis, Sophie Thatcher, and Sophie Nelisse?

Mitchell Murray said...

Everyone: Music related question - what would be your thoughts on the following rock tracks?

Power (Goku Song) - Divide Music
Mighty Wings - Cheap Trick (Totally not Ken's theme from Street Fighter 2)
House of the Rising Sun (Cover) - Five Finger Death Punch
Hero (Cover) - Youth Never Dies/Ankor Official (The Anime filled AMV to this song is fire!)
How Can I Live & Beginning of the End - Ill Nino & Spineshank, respectively (Shout out to one of my guilty pleasures "Freddy Vs Jason")

Ytrewq Wertyq said...

Nice, Kinnear got upgraded and Nicholson...well, let's just say the person who decided to hand him that Oscar must've really liked romcoms.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Screentime data for The Proposition (I’m a Patreon contributor to Screentime Central now)

- Ray Winstone - 30:24 (29.18%)
- Guy Pearce - 24:26 (23.45%)
- Emily Watson - 22:12 (21.31%)
- Danny Huston - 14:13 (13.65%)
- John Hurt - 8:38 (8.29%)
- David Wenham - 7:32 (7.23%)

(Also, the website says Matthau and Shaw have nearly identical percentages in Taking of Pelham One, Two, Three)

8000S said...

Louis: Also, your thoughts on Ozu's direction and screenplay in Tokyo Twilight.

Bryan L. said...

Louis: Apparently, Heath Ledger (a big fan of the novel) was set to direct a film adaptation of The Queen's Gambit with Ellen Page in the lead role and him taking a supporting part, at the tail end of 2008. Thoughts? Also, which part do you reckon Ledger may have taken in the film?

Also also, how do you think Ledger would've fared in Ryan Phillipes' role in Crash (which he was in talks for)?

Calvin Law said...

Bryan: I know you don’t mean ill intent but even in reference to the past you should refer to Page as Elliot.

Bryan L. said...

Calvin: Oh, sorry about that. My mistake.

Mitchell Murray said...

Bryan: If it makes you feel better, even I have to remind myself that occasionally. It doesn't help that Elliot has been in the public eye as a woman for so long, or that he's still a quote-on-quote "best actress" nominee since around the same time as Ledger's project.

HTT said...

So, I just watched The Northman. Absolutely blown away. I wouldn't say it's perfect, but the good outweights the bad so much here that I could not care less. I would say it's the highest of 9.9/10s at the moment. May become a 10 on rewatch.

Cast ratings:
Alexander Skarsgård: 5/5
Nicole Kidman: 4/5
Claes Bang: 3.5/5
Ethan Hawke: 3.5/5
Anya Taylor-Joy: 4.5/5
Björk: 3.5/5
Gustav Lindh: 3.5/5
Willem Dafoe: 3/5

Cast MVP is of course Alexander Skarsgård. I honestly believe that Skarsgård's final scene may be the finest piece of acting we will see this year.

Bryan L. said...

Mitchell: Yeah, admittedly what you mentioned is true. Page was indeed in the public eye for awhile as a woman, so my memory hasn’t fully made the switch yet.

Shaggy Rogers said...

Hey guys
If Louis were to post alternate supporting and lead actress, say 10 snubbed names from 1997.

Lead Actress:
Pam Grier - Jackie Brow
Kathy Burke - Nil by Mouth
Jodie Foster - Contact
Lynn Whitfield - Eve's Bayou
Parker Posey - The House of Yes

Supporting Actress:
Bridget Fonda - Jackie Brow
Patricia Arquette - Lost Highway
Joan Cusack - Grosse Pointe Blank
Sarah Polley or Sarah Polley - The Sweet Hereafter
Debbi Morgan or Jake Smollett - Eve's Bayou

Shaggy Rogers said...

Alberta Watson I say

Matt Mustin said...

I don't want to get into this, but can we maybe say "pre-transition" instead of "as a woman"?

Bryan L. said...

Matt: Sure, no problem. We can say that.

Mitchell Murray said...

Matt: I mainly used that phrase to describe how the public "percieved" Elliot pre-transition.

Louis Morgan said...

Robert:

I'm a little surprised actually that Pearce has that much less than Winstone. That isn't too surprising about Pelham, since the film covers so many bases (The transit police, the transit authority, the mayor, the subway passengers, the crooks) that it would be pretty spread out to begin with. I guess my only argument for Shaw supporting, Matthau lead, is that Matthau is the center of his scenes entirely, where Shaw very much shares most of them with Balsam, though I think it would be fair to place both of them lead.

8000's:

Certainly interesting to see Miyagawa and Kurosawa talk shop, and some of the tricks they used to develops Rashomon then particularly stunning and unique look.

I'll admit from what I've seen there hasn't been a definitive documentary on Kurosawa (His work, his life, his professional relationships/collaborations), which is a shame.

Ozu's direction is rather fascinating for that film in that it still has that intimacy in terms of capturing personal moments so powerfully, it is much more distant, colder if not even pessimistic in some ways in his choices, particularly that of the shadowy cinematography. Where other films his characters may be challenged, here they are genuinely suffering with the emotional trauma, and that sort of break from the mold is captured within Ozu's choices that aren't often as welcoming into the personal spaces, and more so we are that observer of the personal space that is defined here by much more of a pain. This isn't by broad choices in his direction, but rather these smaller ones that carry much weight, even something as seeing more frequently the back of someone in a conversation, rather than both people at once,or even just depicting the moments of emotional pain so much more bluntly.

Bryan:

Interesting alone that he would've directed it, and it's a shame we never got to see it. Wouldn't have been sold on Page at the time to be honest, just as Page has kind of a samey quality at times, and lacks, from what I've seen, that certain edge that Taylor-Joy brought so effectively.

I imagine he would've played D.L. Townes.

Well Ledger was the much better actor, so I imagine he could've been better, but I'm glad he stayed away from the role honestly.

Tony:

I don't give thoughts on part of a season.

Razor said...

Louis: Thoughts on these scenes from Barry?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiQeeIQg4y0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyjSNQ0eHEI

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Louis: Your thoughts on James Lance and Sarah Niles's performances in Ted Lasso? The voice Lance uses vaguely reminded me of DDL's voice, wondered if it did the same for you.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Thoughts on Thor: Love and Thunder trailer.

Mitchell Murray said...

Luke: Full disclosure - anything that starts with "Sweet Child O' Mine" is close to winning me over already...

In all seriousness, though, I'm sure I'll enjoy it so long as it continues the Waititi humour which worked so well in "Thor Ragnarok". Hemsworth has obviously being doing well as Thor - particularly after Ragnarok - and although it's not a traditional part of the character, the comic timing and charm he's bringing to the role is very admirable.

As for the final teaser...well, Natalie Portman is in the film, and that's my biggest hesitation sadly. I never liked her as Jane, and I'm also skeptical of how she'd fair as an action star. Maybe she'll only be in the movie for a few minutes and it's no big deal, but if not, I'd prefer more screen time between Hemsworth and Thompson.

Louis Morgan said...

Razor:

A hilarious scene in really pure comedy of their nonsense of just the idiot doing the following with his over done details of his following. And the bosses lack of concern for the "creepy man's" personal vendetta by just how much they like the stash house.

The second scene is just powerful acting from Hader in revealing really both the deep pain in Barry, but also the intensity of his psychopathy right in the flashback. We also somehow naturally still get humor in Winkler's performance from describing himself as "an alpha" but also in his "comforting" that somehow makes it about himself.

Tahmeed:

Lance - (His voice is indeed rather DDL esque with just the very intensity of his regalness that acts as this constant prodding of criticism for much of the series until late in season 2. Mostly he's purposefully one note of that sort of casual critical caustic, but I thought he managed to be quite good in his moments of this sort of earnest dignity as he describes his decisions later on.)

Niles - (A performance that I think works in really its limited and contrasting state to Ted, in that her performance is very withdrawn and seemingly cold against obviously what Ted is doing all the time. Niles I think plays this effectively particularly as basically the character is her revealing more of herself throughout as Ted reveals more of himself. In that she is good in portraying that shift by not overplaying just how open she is, but creating a natural sense of the empathy she does display as she goes deeper into Ted's trauma.)

Luke:

Looks like fun, that's all I'm asking for, seems like Waititi is just doing his thing, which again is all I'm asking for. Interesting with the lack of Bale, and the very limited Portman to see how they'll be used in Waititi general choices, but I guess we'll see.