Thursday 28 May 2020

Alternate Best Actor 2014: Tom Hardy & James Gandolfini in The Drop

Tom Hardy did not receive an Oscar nomination for portraying Bob Saginowski nor did James Gandolfini for portraying Marvin "Cousin Marv" Stipler in The Drop.

The Drop follows the two operators of a bar, used as a money drop for a crime boss, one the former owner attempting to orchestrate a robbery.

I will note first the oddity of an awards season, as so often is the case, in reflecting on the fact that James Gandolfini did not receive a bit of recognition for his final role in this film. This in that 2014 was not a year filled with supporting actor contenders, and it seemed it would've been easy enough to earn him a posthumous nod for his final role, particularly with the fact that the default, though not bad, nomination for Robert Duvall in The Judge, was able to coast to an easy nomination for a film without support. Yes I personally consider Gandolfini lead in this film, however it is not a clear cut case, it is definitely a borderline performance so it's not one that I would've even considered fraud. I guess the failed attempt for Enough Said, told them not to try twice? I guess, it just seems unfortunate, as it would've been an easy way to recognize the actor one last time. Anyways though lets actually look at the performances of both Gandolfini and Tom Hardy in what was technically his secondary role, in that it received less attention in the year, from the year after his "one man show" performance as a Welshman contractor going through a crisis in Locke. Hardy and Gandolfini play the operators of the bar that acts as the titular drop of dirty money, once in a while. Hardy playing the workaday bartender Bob seemingly just making a living doing his job as just that, and Gandolfini as Marv in the more complex situation being the former owner of the bar/crook, who lost ownership as well as his attempted criminal career to the Chechen gangsters they technically both work for as the film opens.

Gandolfini technically is fitting into the type of role he became known for as early as True Romance, however of course truly broke out in his TV star making turn as Tony Soprano. Although in the same world this is not Gandolfini replaying the part of the New Jersey Mafioso, not just because he's using his own appropriate accent for a NY pseudo gangster, but the whole being of who Marv is. Gandolfini's performance here is an interesting one in quietly subverting his typically more dominating presence in a subtle way. This as he portrays Marv in general with the slightly affable, if lazy, bar tender himself. His portrayal to the public seemingly as an unimportant soul just existing in the bar. This is rather fascinating in that this both directly connects to what Hardy is doing but in a very different way. Speaking of Hardy this is a performance that I'll say works in one way, but then works in an even greater way within the overarching revelations of the film. Let's look at the first side of that, naturally first, this in Hardy's portrayal of Bob seemingly is suited towards Marlon Brando as Terry Malloy in On The Waterfront, or Sylvester Stallone as Rocky Balboa. This is as Hardy portrays Bob very much within this idea of this working class guy with a small job in a small underworld. This idea, seemingly, further accentuated within his performance that offers a very similar performance, at first, to Stallone and Brando. This in presenting this certain withdrawn quality at times, as a man other might describe as fool if cruel, though more than anything just appears to be an unassuming bartender. This in Hardy's quiet retiring voice, and just his manner where he seems to look away more than he looks at people. This making Bob seem a man of no note to most.

Hardy though carries with him that certain captivating quality within the unassuming quality within his performance. There is something about him within Hardy's portrayal that is just slightly unusual. Now for the first viewing, almost the entire film, this seems to be just maybe the quirk of the unassuming man. A possible likable enough quirk as he discovers a wounded dog outside the house of a woman, Nadia (Noomi Rapace). This as Hardy's eyes accentuate this quiet concern for the dog, and earnest manner with Nadia. Hardy is hardly a romantic, not even compared to the somewhat clumsy ways of a Rocky Balboa. Hardy rather accentuates though this sort of seeming fascination in his eyes that garner some strange semblance of a gentleness of Bob in his disposition, the heart within the awkwardness that Hardy so well realizes, but perhaps that's not all it is. Gandolfini on the other hand shows a different man in his personal scenes, though two different men. The first though is perhaps the more expected as we see that Marv is behind an attempted theft of his own bar and planning an even large heist. Gandolfini's portrayal of these scenes is with a minor sense of cunning but also a sloppiness. This not so much in his own delivery but in his interactions with the men he chooses to work with. Gandolfini accentuating a certain frustration as he tries to be the boss to incompetence, and the whole time he's terrific in granting a certain worry within Marv's eyes sensing that these men are not exactly reliable.

Hardy's performance as Bob though takes on initially this seeming rooting factor for him in how we see him as this shy "hero" to follow. This as we see him interact with the criminal elements just that with a quiet service in which he takes no joy or interest other to the point of doing his job. Where Hardy emphasizes Bob's concerns is with his dog, particularly when a complication arrives through a small time crook, and former mental patient Eric Deeds (Mathias Schoenaerts), who claims the dog is his own and intends to blackmail Bob by threatening the dog. Hardy is amazing in these moments as his eyes conduct such a sense of concern for the dog and distaste for this man without saying a word. It is all in his eyes and brilliantly so in conveying the way Bob interacts with even people he hates, is in this quite yet specific reduced emotion. Now for Gandolfini there is that other side of Marv we see as well in his scenes alone with Bob and his scenes with his sister (Ann Dowd). If Marv was a little more likable these would be absolutely devastating, however they are still heartbreaking in there own way. This as Gandolfini reveals just a quiet desperation in the man with his sister. His own eyes filled with just the sense of defeat as he ignores his sister's suggestions to leave the city, and he just accentuates a man who sees his life as a dead-end. His only attempt at anything else comes when speaking to Bob, who was technically a former member of his short lived crew. In these scenes, which are closest to his performance as Tony Soprano in approach, in that we get a bit of Gandolfini's unique intensity which he makes this interesting sort of microcosm of anger in the way he tightens both his voice and body language to this seemingly invisible point right in front of his mouth. It is still not a copy though as here Gandolfini's manner is filled with such a pathetic need to prove himself, rather than merely proving himself. His anger going to the deaf ears of Bob who has heard all of Marv's delusions of grandeur before. Essential to note that Hardy's performance in these scenes where even though in his delivery he maintains a certain detachment, a low key, derision of Marv though without really a hint of actual venom in his voice. 

Now the ending of the film is where there is the connection between the two. This as Marv gets Eric Deeds to attempt to rob the bar, when Bob is running it, in order to steal all the money from the titular drop. Where we saw Gandolfini portray Marv as on the surface just a guy going along with his plight as a bar tender, we find him as a bitter man trying to regain a hint of what he sees as his pride as a crook. For Bob this dichotomy is a bit more complicated. This is as Bob isn't just some awkward guy, he's actually a complete sociopath, what I love, is Tom Hardy is playing this way the whole time. This in his almost entirely detached manner with only emotion for certain things, like a proper sociopath, and even those emotions are largely reduced. This even more amplified in the moments where we see Bob directly interact with violence, indirectly. In that he disposes of body parts as though he disposing of any old garbage. Hardy playing with this disturbing clarity, that seems off, however it doesn't click until the ending where Eric is trying to rob Bob directly, but Bob first tells a story of a man he murdered for Marv, a man Eric has claimed he killed. Hardy is outstanding in this whole scene. This with his delivery of the story where Bob's stoic quality suddenly takes an unnerving quality to it while also just being wholly magnetic. This as there is this confidence even in it as he describes the kill in such a clinical way that is absolutely terrifying. This as his eyes have an eerie sense of purpose keeping his stare at Eric, where there isn't a hint of fear, rather eyes of sociopath ready to kill again. This which he does mercilessly to the unsuspecting Eric.

This transformation is incredible because it isn't one at all. This is Hardy just showing us those qualities in Bob from that certain degree of detachment in connection to violence, and his careful manner towards life. Hardy shows that he's not the quiet one because he's just shy, there's technically something mentally off about Bob, very much so, yet so easy to ignore due to his unassuming manner. The only major shift is the hate suggested in his eyes towards Eric comes out, in this marvelous rambling that Hardy performs as this unleashing of the few emotions that Bob does have. This as he derides Eric in such a peculiar way, but the way Hardy does it shows it as Bob's most vicious self towards Eric. This being the most Bob feels, and that means he feels it quite strongly. Gandolfini's final scene on the other hand is a bit simpler, as we just see Marv waiting out Eric's failure in a car outside until an assassin comes for him as well. This is one of those scenes that is heartbreaking, however I think that comes from one knowing it is Gandolfini's last filmed scene than really feeling too much for Marv who sowed his own demise. Even with that in mind though it is still beautifully performed by Gandolfini as his somber way of tensely closing his eyes is that of just a painful acceptance of death of a man without anything to live for. Although this isn't his greatest work it stood as a worthy sendoff for a man of his talent. For Hardy, this is one of his great performances. This in that he successfully is this off-beat working class guy with an oddly compelling quality, but then he subverts that by being this sociopath in plain sight. The man that "No one sees coming" as described by the investigating detective in the film. Hardy earns his idea wholly. What is so remarkable is that Hardy doesn't cheat in any way. In that he doesn't ruin Bob for any sympathies, he doesn't cheat to make the twist work yet he hides it. He allows one to care for Bob for all his quirks, those quirks though that he realizes all add up to a cold blooded killer.
(For Gandolfini)
(For Hardy)

156 comments:

Robert MacFarlane said...

I know I’ve been the most vocal Hardy skeptic on the blog, but I love this performance so much. Every risk with his acting choices pays off. Also, agreed entirely about Gandolfini’s last scene playing way more heartbreakingly due to his passing.

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Absolutely brilliant performance by both of them here. If it wasn't for Gyllenhaal, Keaton or Fiennes, Hardy would be an easy win for his work here.
I also find it interesting that Hardy himself claimed that he played his character to have a mild form of autism.

Louis: Your thoughts on Rocco the dog's performance?

Bryan L. said...

Louis: Your 70s cast & director for this film?

Louis Morgan said...

Tahmeed:

Even cuter than John Wick's dog, side note I think I'd rather take my chances with John over Bob.

Bryan:

The Drop 1970's directed by Martin Scorsese:

Bob: Robert De Niro
Marv: Robert Mitchum
Nadia: Karen Black
Eric Deeds: Harvey Keitel
Detective Torres: Raul Julia
Fitz: James Woods

Michael McCarthy said...

Is Schoenaerts still a 4?

Mitchell Murray said...

Another film, like "A Most Violent Year", that I haven't seen in ages. From what I do remember, though, I agree with every word; It's some of Hardy's best work, and it's a worthy final outing for Gandolfini.

Louis: Between this, "The Mexican" and "Enough Said", which would you say is your favourite Gandolfini performance that you've reviewed?

Aidan Pittman said...

Louis: Your 10 favorite directors cameos in their own films?

Calvin Law said...

Brilliant performances and film. Possibly my favourite work of Hardy’s. And glad you reviewed Gandolfini as well. I have a hope this film might sneak into your top 10 as well on rewatch.

Calvin Law said...

Also one of my favourite line deliveries I forgot to mention in the previous post is Hardy’s ‘you embarass me!’

Matt Mustin said...

Gandolfini is great, Hardy is completely brilliant, and one of the things that stuck with me most about this movie, speaking of line deliveries, is the way he says "He was gonna hurt our dog."

Louis Morgan said...

Michael:

No.

Mitchell:

The Mexican.

Aidan:

1. Martin Scorsese - Taxi Driver
2. Roman Polanski - Chinatown
3. Taika Waititi - Hunt for the Wilderpeople
4. John Huston - The life and Times of Judge Roy Bean
5. Harold Ramis - Groundhog Day
6. Francis Ford Coppola - Apocalypse Now
7. David Cronenberg - The Fly
8. Peter Jackson - Fellowship of the Ring
9. Martin Scorsese - Mean Streets
10. Alfred Hitchcock - North by Northwest

Calvin:

Love how he says everything in that speech, have particular affection for:

"Go out to dinner dressed like you're still in you living room! You wear those big hippity-hoppity clown shoes!"

Calvin Law said...

Louis: that's a fantastic bit too. It's kinda goofy in terms of what he's saying but it sounds absolutely terrifying. Glad to see Schoenaerts went up (I assume).

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Are you reviewing Schoenaerts.

Lucas Saavedra said...

Louis: is a 10 lineup for supporting a possibility?

Calvin Law said...

I’d say 5 is more than enough for supporting.

Michael McCarthy said...

Calvin: I agree, though I wouldn't mind if 2 of the requests ended up being bonus reviews in favor of Schoenaerts and Irrfan Khan getting into the main lineup.

Calvin Law said...

Michael: Oh yeah, didn't notice there were 5 requests. My bad, Michael's idea is perfect too then if Louis feels like he wants to do bonus reviews (plus LaBouef in Fury if he wants).

For what it's worth, out of the requests I've seen I think Waititi will get a 4, and Cusack and Claflin will definitely depend on whether or not Louis taps into the wavelength of their respective films.

Matt Mustin said...

I know he was requested, but I don't think Waititi is worth a review at all. It's not that he's bad, but there's really nothing that interesting to talk about, performance-wise.

Anonymous said...

Louis: Your thoughts on the sound editing, mixing, film editing and visual effects for The Matrix?

Calvin Law said...

Matt: I honestly kind of feel the same way, though I expect it'll kind of be a short review (as will most of the Supporting performances).

Matt Mustin said...

Calvin: He's actually not even the funniest part of the film to me, Rhys Darby is.

Calvin Law said...

Darby is always a highlight of any Waititi film he's in. Cannot wait to see what kind of role he has in Next Goal Wins.

Robert MacFarlane said...

One thing to note: Hardy confirmed he played Bob under the assumption he was autistic. Usually actors fuck that up so badly, so even more kudos to him.

Matt Mustin said...

Robert: They generally only fuck it up if it's explicitly stated that the character is meant to be autistic. Then they put too much emphasis on it. If it's subtext, it usually works better. Not always, but usually.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Matt: It does say some thing that Danny Pudi as Abed was one of the better depictions, and he was supposed to be an exaggeration.

Matt Mustin said...

Robert: He *started* as an exaggeration, it got a lot more honest as they went on.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Matt: Technically became more of an exaggeration again in season 4 and 5, but he bounced back in season 6. (I'm starting to rewatch the show from scratch, man it was different in the first few episodes)

Calvin Law said...

As someone with a sibling on the spectrum, I will say that despite being very actor-y roles that DiCaprio did a great job at capturing a very realistic depiction of the behaviour and mannerisms of an individual with autism. Obviously there's different types and most of the time actors can easily fall into traps like Sean Penn in I Am Sam, and I don't want to say too much on the matter since my exposure is fairly limited in scope.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: I've no problem with Cusack and Claflin as bonuses, also, it takes abit of the pressure off with the prediction. And I agree with others that Darby should be reviewed alongside Waititi.

Calvin Law said...

I'll be interested to see what he thinks of Claflin. It's not a subtle performance by any means and he might go a bit too broad at points but for the most part it is a VERY accurate portrayal of that particular type of insufferable stuck-up prick.

Luke Higham said...

Calvin: I haven't seen Journey's End yet but I think it's his best performance so far. I just hope he doesn't go under a 4.

Calvin Law said...

Luke: I give him a strong 4, although what does kind of help him too is the vast majority of the cast around him are pretty bad.

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Louis: Could Gosling go up for Half Nelson.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Your rating and thoughts on Mark Hamill in Return Of The Joker.

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Louis: Your rating and thoughts for Noomi Rapace and John Ortiz's performances in The Drop?

Michael McCarthy said...

I’d go 3.5/4 for Clafin, though the film itself was very much not my cup of tea. It reminded me of Romper Stomper in that it seemed like it was trying to humanize people who really don’t deserve it.

Mitchell Murray said...

Well after seeing pieces of the film over a few years, I finally managed to watch the full version of "Coming Home". Aside from it's abrupt ending and a few misplaced song choices, I found it to be an effective portrayal of the scars Vietnam left on its veterans.

Voight - 5 (Say what you will about him today, but Voight gave some great performances early in his career.)
Fonda - 4
Dern - 3.5

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Louis: Your thoughts on this scene from Cobra Kai Season 2? Rewatched both seasons last week, and it really packed a punch.

https://youtu.be/m8jjcMQMQ1g

Anonymous said...

Louis: Your top ten male supporting performances of the 1960s?

Shaggy Rogers said...

I saw La Cérémonie (1995) and I really loved it. A question for you: if you were Louis Morgan and you think that the female duo in this film had the best performance of 1995, who would give you the victory as best actress? Isabelle Huppert or Sandrine Bonnaire or tie?

Comment there

Calvin Law said...

Shaggy: I haven't seen it yet. But thanks for the recommendation, always down for a bit more Huppert.

Calvin Law said...

Everyone: what are your favourite performances in each category for 2020 so far? I actually found I can compile some satisfactory lineups just from what I've seen so far already.

Best Actor:
1. Hugh Jackman, Bad Education (5)
2. George MacKay, True History of the Kelly Gang
3. Dev Patel, The Personal History of David Copperfield (4.5)
4. Franz Rogowski, Undine (4)
5. Nicolas Cage, Color Out of Space

Best Actress:
1. Sidney Flanigan, Never Rarely Sometimes Always (4.5)
2. Devin France, Wendy
3. Elisabeth Moss, The Invisible Man
4. Paula Beer, Undine
5. Anya Taylor-Joy, Emma

Best Supporting Actor:
1. Nicolas Hoult, True History of the Kelly Gang (5)
2. Hugh Laurie, The Personal History of David Copperfield (4.5)
3. Russell Crowe, True History of the Kelly Gang (4)
4. Ben Whishaw, The Personal History of David Copperfield
5. Colin Farrell, The Gentlemen (the more I think about it, the more credit I have to give him despite hating the film)

Best Supporting Actress:
1. Essie Davis, True History of the Kelly Gang (4.5)
2. Tilda Swinton, The Personal History of David Copperfield
3. Allison Janney, Bad Education
4. Mia Goth, Emma (4)
5. Morfydd Clark, The Personal History of David Copperfield

Honestly I'm pretty happy with these, certainly more so than the same time last year.

Calvin Law said...

Also, Louis: your thoughts and rating for James Frecheville here as Fitz?

Emi Grant said...

Calvin: I have not watched a single film of 2020 and until either Tenet or I'm Thinking of Ending Things come out, it might stay that way. I do plan on getting to Bad Education and The True History of The Kelly Gang.

Luke Higham said...

Calvin: I'll do top 3s for now.

1. Hugh Jackman in Bad Education (I'd honestly be overjoyed if he won the overall, he won't get such an advantage again)
2. George MacKay in True History Of The Kelly Gang
3. Dev Patel in The Personal History Of David Copperfield

1. Anya Taylor-Joy in Emma
2. Elisabeth Moss in The Invisible Man
3. Devin France in Wendy

1. Nicholas Hoult in True History Of The Kelly Gang
2. Hugh Laurie in The Personal History Of David Copperfield
3. Russell Crowe in True History Of The Kelly Gang

Still need to see Driveways

1. Essie Davis in True History Of The Kelly Gang
2. Allison Janney in Bad Education
3. Mia Goth in Emma

Swinton I have in 4th. I really want to re-watch David Copperfield.

Calvin Law said...

Luke: would be pretty cool if he takes it. I'm loving his performance the more I think about it.

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

That rant that Jackman gives to that parent in the third act of Bad Education is honestly one of his finest acting moments. He's definitely my win for the year.

Bryan L. said...

Calvin: Will do the same as Luke

Best Actor
1. Hugh Jackman
2. George MacKay
3. Ben Affleck
4. Nicolas Cage

Best Actress
1. Anya Taylor-Joy
2. Elizabeth Moss

Best Supporting Actor
1. Nicholas Hoult
2. Russell Crowe
3. Colin Farrell

Best Supporting Actress
1. Essie Davis
2. Allison Janney
3. Mia Goth

Bryan L. said...

Luke: Your thoughts on Wendy.

Calvin Law said...

Tahmeed: that’s an amazing scene I also loved his confrontation with Rachel, did not realise Jackman could be that nastily scary even when remaining within his ‘charismatic’ frame.

Shaggy Rogers said...

Calvin

BEST ACTOR:
1. Jean Dujardin in An Officer and a Spy
2. George MacKay in True History Of The Kelly Gang
3. Hugh Jackman in Bad Education
4. Ben Affleck in The Way Back
5. Tom Hardy in Capone

BEST ACTRESS:
1. Sidney Flanigan in Never Rarely Sometimes Always
2. Elisabeth Moss in The Invisible Man
3. Anya Taylor-Joy in Emma
4. Alison Brie in Horse Girl
5. Julia Garner in The Assistant

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR:
1. Nicholas Hoult in True History Of The Kelly Gang
2. Louis Garrel in An Officer and a Spy
3. Hugh Laurie in The Personal History of David Copperfield
4. Ben Whishaw in The Personal History of David Copperfield
5. Russell Crowe in True History Of The Kelly Gang

BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS:
1. Emmanuelle Seigner in An Officer and a Spy
2. Essie Davis in True History of the Kelly Gang
3. Allison Janney in Bad Education
4. Talia Ryder in Never Rarely Sometimes Always
5. Mia Goth in Emma

PS: I know that Roman Polanski's An Officer and a Spy is a film from last year. I'm only considered it because there was no mention of Louis in the lineup in 2019.

Matt Mustin said...

Shaggy: Maybe because he didn't see it?

Luke Higham said...

Bryan: I liked it rather well on the whole, France was really good and I agree with Louis and Calvin that the finale was quite outstanding.

Luke Higham said...

Calvin: On your most recent instagram post, aside from Wendy and Bad Education, can I have your ratings on the casts of the films you've listed.

Aidan Pittman said...

Louis: Have you heard Phillip Lambro's unused score for Chinatown? If so, what do you think of it (you can find the whole thing here if you haven't heard it and are interested: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mZbLBhdkwVFmejoal-sxiMyByEFqVtXWQ)?

Shaggy Rogers said...

Matt: Another reason is that the film was not released in theaters in the USA

Mitchell Murray said...

So I saw "The French Connection" for the first time today, and I liked it. It's certainly a well made thriller with a few gripping set pieces, and a steady pace throughout.

Hackman - 4
Scheider - 4
Rey - 3.5

Calvin Law said...

Luke:

Cléo from 5 to 7
Marchand: 4.5
Bourseiller: 3.5
Godard and Karina: 3.5
Everyone else a collective 3

Sherlock Jr.
Keaton - 4.5

La Haine
Cassel: 4.5/5
Koundé: 4.5
Taghmaoui: 4.5
Everyone else is a collective 3 or 3.5

Three Colors: Red
Jacob: 4.5
Trintignant: 4.5
Everyone else is a collective 3

Phoenix
Hoss: 5
Zeherfeld: 3.5
Kunzendorf: 4

Le Bonheur
Everyone a 3.5 or so, this is really a director’s film.

Ivan’s Childhood
Burlyaev: 4
Zubkov: 4
Zharikov: 4
Malyavina: 3.5

The Cameraman
Keaton: 4

Louis Morgan said...

Calvin:

I honestly wish the speech was better known to allow for comic use of "I"m tired of you man, I'm Tired of you, you embarrass me".

I think I have covered Frecheville before, however I'll note a major upgrade in comparison to his work in Animal Kingdom once again. This in just doing well in conveying sort of a minor level of intelligence within the general foolish demeanor. Finds a decent balance there.

Luke:

I'll be playing supporting by ear, won't be a full ten, maybe extras though.

Anonymous:

Sound editing is terrific in terms of remarkable hard hitting just "action noises" whether be helicopter crash, punches, bullets you have you. Added to that though memorable additional sounds for the machines of the future, or some of the "matrix' elements of altering reality.

The overall design is outstanding work in terms of creating immersive sound in so many of the scenes, creating an intensity within that, with the score, along with some unexpected shifts in that regard to help sort amplify the manipulation of reality again.

The editing is just some fantastic "swiss watch" style editing, just in terms of efficiency. I don't even love the film in a way, but it is one smooth ride. The editing being essential in creating that flow of narrative, balance of scenes, and particularly cohesive and compelling action. This in terms of the fights scenes in particular that does a great job in doing it in a very new way, from the balance of the right amount of cuts, use of slow mo, and normal motion. Brilliant work.

The visual effects of course were great for the time, and like most that were great for the time, it largely holds up today. Whether this is the more overt CGI, like the real present scenes, or the manipulation of reality, or the more subtle use such as man the leaping not look stupid, or bullet time look dynamic.

Louis Morgan said...

Tahmeed:

Yes.

I think I have given thoughts on them before however to recap. Rapace I don't think gets entirely comfortable with the accent, however I do like the sort of intense vulnerability she brings. Her reactions in particular being important in the final scene, though perhaps overshadowed by her costars, her straight humanity compared to what is going with the men is essential.

Ortiz I think brings a nice bit of flavor to his scenes that are generally just exposition. What I more than like though is his final scene where Hardy, where he is pretty great in his delivery, that says so much, of "they never see you coming, do they Bob?". Where we see that the detective knows the truth about Bob, he just can't prove it.

I mean you'll hear nothing but praise from me for Zabka throughout the series so far. This as Zabka is so honestly attuned to Johnny, this particularly in portraying the difficultly of the regrets of his past, and this scene in particularly beautifully performed where he accentuates both that failure with also the certain pride in the hope of the future in Miguel.

Luke:

Hamill - 4.5(I'd actually say this is his best work as the Joker. This is that we do get the sort of manic insanity and fun that we come to expect from that idiosyncratic voice that just seems perfect for the character, but it goes further here. He goes darker and Hamill excels in doing so. This in particular the flashback sequences where Hamill does one of the most amazing combination as he is wholly terrifying in describing Robin's torture, yet still gets the glint of the sort of dark humor essential to the joker particularly "IF you don't like the movie, I've got slides". There's even a bit more though in his scenes directly with Terry, where Hamill brings a greater frustration and anger to the character. Brilliant work.)

Anonymous:

1. Tsutomu Yamazaki - High and Low
2. Tom Courtenay - Doctor Zhivago
3. Jason Robards - Once Upon a Time in The West
4. Melvyn Douglas - Hud
5. Sterling Hayden - Dr. Stranglove
6. George C. Scott - Dr. Strangelove
7. Harry Andrews - The Hill
8. Montgomery Clift - Judgment at Nuremberg
9. Fredric March - Seven Days in May
10. Tatsuya Nakadai - Yojimbo

Aidan:

I had not, but I can see why it was rejected, as it honestly feels like a far less refined version of Goldsmith's score. This with similar ideas with sort of the jazzy quality along with classic noir, something Goldsmith achieved rather brilliantly, while this score feels like a far messier and more bombastic version of what Goldsmith did. This with the original going too surreal sounding a times, and really excessively over the top with the emotional intensity. This while doing so in a very all over the place way.

Anonymous said...

Louis have you finished the Sopranos?

Louis Morgan said...

Yes

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Thoughts on The Sopranos and the cast.

Tim said...

Wow, on your 60s supporting list Tom Courtenay must have gone waaayyy up.
You once made a list of your top 20 favorite supporting Performances ever with Robarts, but without Courtenay.
Andon your Overall nominee rank Douglas was around 20 (much too low if you ask me) and T. C. was around 50!

What exactly made him go up THAT much?!

Calvin Law said...

Tim: It's one of those performances that has aged beautifully for Louis, and really I feel exactly the same way. It can be easy to miss how much he does in the role initially.

Tim said...

well, i have watchedv that movie several times now (it's my favorite Lean, sue me) and i still prefer Rod Steiger

Calvin Law said...

Tim: It’s one my favourites as well and that’s fair enough, they’re both amazing.

Louis Morgan said...

Luke:

Sopranos as a show you see the step forward in regarding serialized television. This in building on the characters/the world/their interactions in a much deeper and more connected way than was seen in most shows previously. I would say though it was not an entirely complete step as the plots here are far less refined than say in a Breaking Bad, and there are often the loose end, and not always in a way I would say as intentional. There are sort of convenient ends to plots rather than wholly natural progressions at times. Having said what there is regarding that building is extremely well done in fleshing out these characters and their world as basically a mafia show about people who have seen all the mafia films repeatedly. Notably, which sort of carries the show past any weaknesses in plotting for me, is how frequently hilarious it is. This as I'd almost describe as a sitcom, in a good way, in its overall tone is one of just being plain entertaining which it is even when the plot is lagging. It doesn't get burdened by the drama within the story excelling at being quite funny while also being still effective in exploring the depths of its characters.

Hmmm...kind of a big cast.

Anonymous said...

What would be your cast ranking Louis?

Louis Morgan said...

Anonymous:

1. James Gandolfini
2. Vincent Curatola
3. Tony Sirico
4. Vincent Pastore
5. Dominic Chianese
6. Michael Imperioli
7. Nancy Marchand
8. Drea de Matteo
9. Steve Schirripa
10. Joe Pantoliano
11. Joseph R. Gannascoli
12. Aida Turturro
13. Edie Falco
14. Frank Vincent
15. Steven van Zandt
16. David Proval
17. Robert Loggia
18. Lorraine Bracco
19. Sharon Angela
20. Tony Lip
21. Carl Capotorto
22. John Ventimiglia
23. Jerry Adler
24. Annabella Sciorra
25. Federico Castelluccio
26. Peter Bogdanovich
27. John Heard
28. Dan Grimaldi
29. Kathrine Narducci
30. Robert Funaro
31. Michael Pispoli
32. Steve Buscemi
33. Lillo Brancato
34. Jason Cerbone
35. Denise Borino-Quinn
36. Arthur J. Nascarella
37. Frank Pellegrino
38. Joeseph Badalucco
39. Matt Servitto
40. Robert Iler
41. Jamie-Lynn Sigler
42. Julianna Margulies
43. Tim Daly
44. Peter Riegert
45. David Strathairn
46. Tom Aldredge
47. Suzanne Shepherd
48. Oksana Lada
49. Paul Schultze
50. Will Janowitz
51. Caitlyn Rucker
52. Patrick Tully

Also side big HM to one episode wonders of Hal Holbrook and Sydney Pollack.

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Louis: Could I have your thoughts on your top ten performances from the Sopranos, alongside Edie Falco and Lorraine Bracco?

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Louis: Also, your thoughts on the series finale, and your interpretation of the final scene?

Calvin Law said...

That is one huge cast list lol. I’m starting on Sopranos this summer, looking forward.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Ratings and thoughts on Friedle, Conroy and Stockwell in Return Of The Joker.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Is The Wire or Hannibal next on your list.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Louis: Thoughts on de Matteo?

Mitchell Murray said...

So I watched "In the Heat of the Night" today, which I ended up liking. I think it's a fairly well done film of its type, mostly because of it's two leads, and how it brings a genuine weight to its themes and narrative.

Steiger - 4.5
Poitier - 4.5
Oates - 3.5
Grant - 3

Anonymous said...

Louis, in no particular order, your top 5 dubbed performances.

Anonymous said...

Louis: Your thoughts on this scene from Game of Thrones season 1?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpBBueLih_k

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Anonymous: That's one of the show's greatest scenes for me. Not only is it a fantastic showcase for Mark Addy and Lena Headey's performances who are able to sell every complex emotion regarding their history with each other,the writing is also on point. The fact that D & D were capable of crafting amazing original moments like that which were so true to the characters, is really a testament to how far the show fell during seasons 7 and 8.

Calvin Law said...

Mitchell: Poitier and Steiger are super easy 5’s for me.

Bryan L. said...

“They call me Mister Tibbs!” is worthy of a nomination by itself.

Mitchell Murray said...

Calvin: Well that's what I felt comfortable giving them on this first viewing. A lot of the performances I ended up giving 5's too were originally 4.5's (Ex. Andrew Garfield in "Hacksaw Ridge"), so the chances of both Steiger and Poitier going up are very high indeed.

Also, going back to the question of "best line deliveries of the 2010s", I was just reminded of one today;

"You F*cking Idiot!" - Carrie Coon in "Gone Girl"

For some reason I've always loved the way she says that in the film.

Mitchell Murray said...

Bryan: Absolutely agree.

Louis Morgan said...

Tahmeed:

Well let's do it reverse order.

Bracco - (Her performance gets sort of diluted as the series goes on as she is initially a more leading presence but does slowly become an unquestionably supporting role. This particularly with her character's reactions towards Tony becoming less important than as largely a facilitator for Tony's internal monologue. Bracco though is good in differentiating the two sides of her character in that we have her therapist role, where she has this sort of gentle incisiveness in terms of her quiet reactions and interjections to Tony throughout the series. This against her scenes in her personal life where she is quite good in being more openly expressive in creating the sense of confusion towards her role in the life of a mafioso. She's also excellent in her focal point episode that most challenge sort of potential use of Tony's nefarious side. This in creating quite powerfully the visceral horror than combination of anguish and trauma after what happens happens. It is strong work from her even if she does have lesser purpose as the show goes on.)

Falco - (In a certain sense her role often in the less intense elements of the series to say the least. Her performance though excelled, as so many do in the series, in so completely crafting to the character this to the point that you very much only see the character never the performer. This with Falco completely immerses in the role, and not just her very convincing Jersey accent. Her whole presence though she manages to realizes so absolutely as this purposefully detached mob wife though generally concerned mother. Falco is particularly effective in balancing sort of the more day to day manner of the mother where she found variety in the ever changing mood of dealing with her children, against the brief moments of connecting to the greater extremes of the mob life. This in particular reacting to certain deaths in the series, or having the moments of acknowledging her own failures as connected to ignoring Tony's crimes. Falco always excelled when pushed into any of those sides of the story, while also just giving that always convincing performance that so seemed you merely meet Carmela per episode so to speak.)

Pantoliano - (Pantoliano here delivers the greatest Joe Pantoliano performance I'd say he could possibly ever deliver. I mean the role does fit right into his wheelhouse as a particularly skeevy and amoral mobster. Pantoliano though thrives her even more so than in his best film work in Bound. In that Pantoliano is just that much more horrible than the rest in the sheer joy and the unabashed lack of shame in his moments of sleazy mobster. Pantoliano though balances his work here a bit more than usual in portraying that there is a degree of cunning at times in Raphlie that goes beyond being a livewire. He even successfully though finds just a bit more emotional depth than expected in his last episode and Pantoliano excels in these moments in portraying just a bit of heart in Ralph, though really just a bit.)

Louis Morgan said...

Schirripa – (His performance throughout the series is wonderful comic relief in who I’d say is at least a bit of a breakout character in Bobby Bacala. Schirripa is consistently hilarious in the role in playing his role so affably and shy that is so ill-fitting, in the best of ways, to the life that he is in. Schirripa naturally finding the humor in Bobby’s strange state in so many different moments, particularly as the goof compared to Tony in so many scenes. Schirripa’s performance though manages to go beyond being just an endearing goofball though and manages to create some particularly poignant moments in portraying the sort of blunt morality of his character compared to others. Schirripa being quite moving later on in showing the struggles to be really any sort of fiend as required by his job, and excels as the guy who really wasn’t cut out to be a killer of any kind.)

De Matteo – (Her performance is one early on easy enough to take for granted. This is though she actually is quite good in fashioning basically the modern style gun moll with the sort of attempted manner of being an enthusiastic supporter of her criminal boyfriend while also portraying sort of the, idiocy for a lack of a better word, in putting up with the life. She manages to do this in a way that makes a certain comedic quality at times in her damaged relationship with Christopher, though with moments of more genuine uncertainty or affection as well. Of course, her performance is most essential though in her sort of showcase season where she excels in the greater material given to her. This in portraying still the, in over her head, woman though the sheer emotional devastation and exasperation as this life comes crashing down on her in more ways than one. She is particularly heartbreaking later on as she balances this certain glint of hope in her performance for a better life, that is wrapped around in sort of this acceptance of a failed existence.)
Marchand – (The most horrible villain in the whole series just by being a terrible mother. Marchand though is great in being completely intolerable in this regard. This in being in the more general sense this overbearing mother so brutally as always doing so with this sense of selfishness in every statement no matter how self-defeating it may seem. Her performance though strikes just this darker tone that is essential in this both cunning and detachment that shows her to be a proper sociopath even beyond her already hateful manner. Her performance taking the next step towards a true vindictiveness, this to the point that I do think it is a shame we didn’t get a bit more of her, however the impression she did make was a strong one.)
Imperioli – (His performance is actually a whole lot of different balancing acts that he actually pulls off wonderfully in the combination of things he needs to do. He manages to bring the needed intensity of a proper hitman and hopeful mob boss. He though is just as good in bringing this haplessness of a true buffoon that is funny yet he never goes too far with these moments to become truly ridiculous. He’s though also believable in the moments of delusions of grandeur in his Hollywood hopes moments as the wannabe player, this by playing as being hopelessly inadequate in this regard. This while being a proper sleazeball but finding enough sympathy within that. Imperioli manages to do both in finding the right moments to dig deeper towards the real pathos of the man, and the insecurities and attempted want for a deeper connection with Tony. Also as essential is his moments with De Matteo where at times they are a comic pair, but at the same time as the series goes on they effectively bridge this. This being as Imperioli manages to be particularly heartbreaking in the descent of the man again and again as this hopeless case. This though with the needed moments of nuance as he plays them as this almost attempted tenderness that are typically degraded or rebuffed.)

Louis Morgan said...

Chianese – (Chianese delivers a great performance as he manages to again find that balance here in portraying sort of this combination of things. One being the attempted surrogate father figure with Tony, while also being his rival. Chianese being excellent in portraying this combination of a certain cunning but with it the limited desperation of a man, who almost has it, yet never quite met the standard to be a varsity athlete. Chianese though I love how he crafted his chemistry with Gandolfini throughout the show that was rife with complication. This in that one could garner the over hatred in their moments of most overt antagonism, however in more silent moments the connection that did exist between nephew and uncle. Although I do wish they had maybe taken his character towards at least a slightly more active route near the end, I will say Chianese’s portrayal of that descent is remarkable. This in completely delivering in creating the different states of the man as he slowly loses his mind. This balancing moments of comedy with true tragedy within the man loss of self.)

Pastore – (Perhaps my favorite single season performance in the show, though he’s two, I refer to his second season performance that is pretty outstanding. This as Pastore first and foremost excels as being one of the mob guys and particularly strikes up such a strong sense of the camaraderie with his co-stars Gandolfini in particular. You really gain the sense of their friendship that is essential. Pastore though then is brilliant in portraying the spiraling of the character towards his end in presenting so well the different sides of the man attempting in different moments to justify his actions while also dealing with the very real guilt of them. Pastore is truly heartbreaking in the moments of recognizing his faults as they connect with his friends as Pastore shows so powerfully how it all tears him up inside as he does it. His performance in the final scene being a highlight as he brings such a stunning sense of the visceral impact of the situation but also the emotional devastation of it.)

Sirico – (Although he in a certain sense was playing himself, it hardly matters to me as if the role calls for it, and the actor knows how to bring that self to screen, it should never be handwaved. Sirico is just brilliant throughout the series. This as he is consistently the comic highlight throughout he series having such hilarious moments just per episode really whether that is through his golden and wonderfully odd reactions to things, or his always shameless delivery of the ways of Paulie. Sirico though does go further than being wildly entertaining, although that would probably be more than enough to begin with. This in he has such effective moments where he sort of shows the killer gear of Paulie, and the sense of more serious weight and duty at times. This though again with much complication as Sirico goes throughout the series I love his arc of essentially Paulie being forced to find a bit more depth in himself. Sirico I think is especially amazing in these moments as he manages to be both funny yet emotionally poignant at times just being be so truthfully Paulie in every second of it. This whether he is shifting gears after threatening a cat, or being stunned by the sight of the Virgin Mary. It is marvelous work.)

Louis Morgan said...

Vincent Curatola – (I mean he has the greatest singular episode I think in the series as a whole for me. This in that particular episode Curatola really delivers a feature film worth of a man’s particular battle and moments of drama worthy of an entirely different scenario. That episode that I’m being purposefully vague about just being flawless work from him. Anyway, though Curatola’s performance in general though is always compelling in almost a peculiar way. This in just the way he carries himself and approaches the part is effortlessly compelling. Curatola’s performance though manages this certain presence that exudes power without saying much of anything and grants the particular sense of professionalism, or at least to the extent in the mafia there can be. This though as Curatola plays that with the sort of internalized intensity that he wields with ease, showing a man in a killer’s business even if he typically takes a businessman approach to the whole thing. Additionally though I love the moments with his wife, though they are comic to an extent, the earnestness he brings to these moments though are surprisingly heartwarming and so perfectly sincere from Curatola.)

Well before I tackle the big man himself, I’ll say my interpretation of the ending that nothing necessarily would happen right then. It was rather to me symbolic that Tony was just stuck waiting for the sword of Damocles to fall whether it be the pending indictment from the FEDS, or finally being outmaneuvered by a rival. I don’t quite buy the “going to get the gun like Michael” theory, as why would the guy need to get a gun from the bathroom, when he wasn’t going to be searched. Side note I frankly loved the choice because the series successfully showed really that Tony has few choices left to make throughout the final episode, this being with his conversation with his other fellow man still standing, who he was thinking about whacking, showing the few tricks left in his sleeve. The finale itself I thought effectively checked in with each essential relationship setting up well their sort of final path, with a particularly memorable sendoff for Tony’s “final” rival, and a properly emotional one’s regarding what Tony and the others have lost along the way.

Luke:

I’ll probably attempt The Wire next, though it won’t be right away.

Louis Morgan said...

Anonymous:

Shelley Winters – An Average Little Man
Leslie Cheung - Farewell My Concubine
Gian Maria Volonte - For A Few Dollars More
Gabriele Ferzetti - Once Upon a Time in the West
Aldo Giuffre - The Good The Bad and The Ugly

Anonymous:

It is an amazing original scene in the series, which I have nothing but praise in how they made Robert so a powerful tragic figure in the show where he's just a one dimensional fool in the book. It such a beautifully acted scene by both of them as it isn't just hate, you get the sense of some connection there within the disconnection, the sense that there is a real humanity in their shared pain to be stuck within a false relationship due to circumstance. You get the years of the shared tragedy in a way of neither finding love in each other, but again it isn't only hate. I would say it shows that D & D real talent as in adaptation of the material, but honestly I think more than anything it showed they had a real passion for the material at the beginning, which was sadly lost later on.

Louis Morgan said...

Tahmeed:

Gandolfini – (Honestly the show simply would not have worked without him. The most immediate reason being he makes Tony likable, if Tony were not likable, despite his many extreme flaws, I think the show wouldn’t have worked. Gandolfini doesn’t only make you like Tony, he makes him endearing a certain way due to his charismatic and balanced performance. He is key in this regard as Gandolfini really gives several brilliant performances in one as Tony as the flawed protagonist that would truly help to define the modern television protagonist. The most obvious being how convincing Gandolfini is as the New Jersey mafioso. This as his accent, his whole manner, just is of this type that is just so effortlessly perfect regarding it. Gandolfini, who wasn’t really like Tony, just simply is Tony in that way the very best television performances are. He just exudes that certain experience in every frame we see him in. The work as the gangster though goes further within that idea than just being this sort of bigger than life, yet still down and dirty force. Gandolfini certainly is that, and even makes Tony’s particular success in charming so many convincing because of how well he exudes that sort of striking confidence. This though combined with the rage of a vicious gangster that he portrays with as much ease, or the terrifying killer instinct that Gandolfini more rarely brings out, yet is horrifying when he does. Gandolfini successfully complicates the persona into these different parts but all the same one of what the man need to do to remain in control. We then have the other layer of the family man, where Gandolfini is generally more comic, but also often more overtly vulnerable as well. Again Gandolfini excels in showing each side this as in many ways a normal dad, however a normal dad more inclined to go to an extreme. This is as Gandolfini is as convincing in raging at the failures of his kids, as in the warmth of moments where he does connect with them, or the heartbreak when he feels they are in danger. Then there is the other layer of the internal monologue of the gangster in therapy. Those scenes alone combined I suppose were worthy of each Emmy he got, this as Gandolfini plays so many different sides there, from flirtatious, to avoidant, to confrontational, to supportive, to a painful vulnerability. The greatness of his work being that neither feels false, and never does Tony seem out of character. Gandolfini makes every single revelation or interaction feel true to Tony, even when he is in a largely humorous scene or a gravely serious one. This isn’t even mentioning just how many specific dynamite episodes Gandolfini, where he focuses more closely on a singular idea within Tony, or even out of him, and knocking it out of the park with his performance. It is simply tremendous work throughout the series that offers that essential anchor while also being effortlessly captivating throughout.)

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Louis: Thank you for the extended write ups of The Sopranos performances, am particularly glad that you hold Gandolfini's work in incredibly high regard.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Your top 30 television performances.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: I'm surprised Pszoniak isn't on the dubbed list.

Aidan Pittman said...

Louis: Your 10 least favorite Best Picture nominees of the 2010s?

Mitchell Murray said...

Aidan: In no particular order for myself...

The Descendants
Joker
Vice
Bohemian Rhapsody
Green Book
The Big Short
Boyhood
American Hustle
The Help
The Kids are All Right

I left off films that achieve most of what they tried to do, and have enough good aspects to warrant a passing grade I.E. "American Sniper", "The King's Speech", "The Theory of Everything", "Manchester By the Sea", etc..

I also haven't seen "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close", and judging by it's reception, I'm not sure I want to.

Emi Grant said...

Aidan: I had actually been working on something along those lines at the beginning of the year. While I still have to re-watch some here's my tempting top 5

1. Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
2. Bohemian Rhapsody
3. Black Panther
4. The Theory of Everything
5. American Sniper

I will say that if I went further with a top 10, Id touch upon highly unpopular opinions I'm not ready to disclose yet.

Tim said...

based on his ranking i guess Pantoliano is a 3.5 for Bound?

And now after The Sopranos, your thoughts on him as an Actor overall?

Robert MacFarlane said...

Aiden:

1. Les Miserables
2. The Big Short
3. Bohemian Rhapsody
4. Green Book
5. Hacksaw Ridge
6. Joker
7. The Revenant
8. Vice
9. Jojo Rabbit
10. Extremely Loud and Extremely Close

Luke Higham said...

Les Mis at #1. LOL :)

Luke Higham said...

Tim: Pantoliano is a 4 for Bound.

Louis Morgan said...

Luke:

As I've noted before, my recall is more than decent, but at times I may momentarily forget one of the tens of thousands of performances I've seen, as Pszoniak obviously qualifies there.

Speaking of let me ruminate on that list a bit.

Aidan:

1. Vice
2. War Horse
3. Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close
4. Bohemian Rhapsody
5. American Hustle
6. The Post
7. The Kids are All Right
8. The Big Short
9. The Theory of Everything
10. Boyhood

Tim:

My thoughts on Pantoliano have not changed. This being he is a limited actor though is effective within sort of his type. Sopranos showed perhaps his greatest emotional range, which was still within the Pantoliano type, but showed a bit more depth than was typical for him. He's not an actor who can really surprise, at least not from what I've seen, but can consistently deliver on a specific request so to speak. This mind you allows one to sort of put him in as a guarantee for a type, or in the case of say Memento cleverly subvert expectations a bit by playing with that we always kind of will naturally take a certain view of a Pantoliano character.

Bryan L. said...

1. Vice
2. Les Miserables
3. Bohemian Rhapsody
4. Extremely Loud and Incredibly Cloying
5. Green Book
6. The Big Short
7. The Tree of Life
8. American Hustle
9. War Horse
10. Zero Dark Thirty (Was mostly bored by this one)

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Didn't expect The Post there and no Green Book.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Yeah, I don’t remember you flat-out hating The Post, what happened there?

Matt Mustin said...

I watched Hamlet 2000, which as far as I'm concerned should be the official title. Robert's not gonna like hearing this, but I hated it.

Hawke-2.5
MacLachlan-4
Stiles-2
Geary-2.5
Schreiber-3
Shepard-3.5
Murray-2.5
Venora-3
Zahn-3
Thurman-2

Jeffrey Wright is in it for 5 seconds and there are some pictures of Casey Affleck.

Aidan Pittman said...

Found Louis' thoughts from when he initially saw The Post and it sounded like he was underwhelmed by it since day one, but I definitely didn't expect him to dislike it enough to put below an Adam McKay film.

I myself actually haven't seen many Best Picture nominees from the 2010s that I downright dislike, so I'll just say Bohemian Rhapsody, Green Book, and Spotlight (sorry) and leave it at that.

Anonymous said...

Louis: I don't know if you've already said your thoughts on it, but if not, what are your thoughts on the scene where Mirage frees Bob? I particularly like Nelson's deliveries when he's choking her.

Matt Mustin said...

So, I kinda still think The Big Short is much worse than Vice. Vice at least has a great performance to anchor it.

Bryan L. said...

Aidan: Spotlight is a film I respect more than I straight-up "like", so I understand where you're coming from.

Mitchell Murray said...

Matt: I'll admit, I'm sort of interested in watching that version of Hamlet.

As far as "The Big Short" Vs "Vice" debate goes, I'd easily prefer the former; I'll take a half competent, mostly harmless mess over a smug, inflated, overly confident mess.

Mitchell Murray said...

On a more positive note, I revisited the original "Rocky" today, and my fondness for the film/Stallone's performance has only been bolstered.

Matt Mustin said...

Mitchell: I mean, the thing about Shakespeare is everybody's gonna have their own different feelings about any adaptation, so I say go for it.

Emi Grant said...

Mitchell: I'm with you in regards to The Big Short/Vice

Matt Mustin said...

Oh, and I haven't seen a lot of the "bad" best picture nominees, so just from the ones I have seen:
1. Joker
2. The Big Short
3. American Hustle
4. The Descendants
5. Vice
6. Manchester by the Sea
7. The Revenant
8. American Sniper
9. Nebraska
10. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

Matt Mustin said...

Mitchell and Emi: I don't know if you guys are remembering The Big Short quite right, because it is SUPER smug.

Anonymous said...

Matt: Eh, but so is Vice. It even starts with a literal title card stating “we tried our f$@*ing best.”

Calvin Law said...

1. Vice
2. Joker
3. Bohemian Rhapsody
4. Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close
5. The Big Short
6. War Horse
7. Green Book
8. The Descendants
9. American Hustle
10. American Sniper

Matt Mustin said...

Anonymous: Yeah, no, you're not gonna catch me defending Vice.

Bryan L. said...

I don’t dislike The Post, but if I’m being honest, it felt like a film WAY more concerned with winning awards more than telling its’ story.

Aidan Pittman said...

Bryan: I suppose you can say the same thing for me. I certainly respect its intentions, but the whole film and its execution felt fake to me, especially with the performances (minus Keaton and certainly Tucci). To be fair, though, it's been some time since I first saw it, and how I understand/appreciate filmmaking has evolved since then, so maybe a rewatch is needed someday...

Luke Higham said...

The one major problem I had with Spotlight was Mark Ruffalo's performance.

Bryan L. said...

I still found The Post watchable though, I might add.

Aidan: I’d have to do that myself one day too, since I hadn’t seen much journalism films back when I saw it.

Matt Mustin said...

Luke: That was actually the only problem I had with Spotlight.

Aidan Pittman said...

Bryan, again: Pretty much agree on The Post. I don't think it's a bad film, but it's certainly an awards bait one and there isn't too much to it outside of that, even with some good performances. I think that's why Bridge of Spies was much more successful as a film, it was more concerned with telling the story right rather than simply pulling Oscars in (even though it's admittedly baity also).

Calvin Law said...

I like Spotlight. I was a bit harsher on it initially for failing to live up to my All the President’s Men standards, but hey, that’s a bit of an unfair standard to hold films to.

Luke Higham said...

Matt: Don't get me wrong, I still like Spotlight a great deal and remember being elated when it beat The Big Short.

Emi Grant said...

Matt: See, I understand were you're coming from, and I'm not denying it can't come off as smug, but something that helps vastly to me is the 3 different interweaving narratives, which is a gimmick I'm always a mark for.

Plus, for all its smugness in the narration, it gets the morality within the real life story right, whereas with Vice it just feels like a very scattershot mess.

I think I must disclose I actually don't dislike The Big Short, to be honest.

Robert MacFarlane said...

Spotlight actually grew on me after two rewatches. Yeah the direction is standard, but the script and performances (minus the obvious one) are so great that they make up for it. I’m delighted it won over DiPassion of DiCaprio and that other movie I don’t like to talk about. Granted, Fury Road would have been ideal, but I won’t let “masterpiece” get in the way of “actually very good”.

Mitchell Murray said...

Matt: Your right about "The Big Short" being smug, but I just thought "Vice" took it to an even greater extreme.

In regards to the comments about "Spotlight" and "The Post", I really like the former, and feel latter is only okay.

"Spotlight" I just really admired in terms of its low key, naturalistic approach. The direction/writing is workmenlike to a degree, but in my opinion, that only enhanced the idea that the Spotlight crew were normal people unveiling a very abnormal story. It also has one of 2015's best ensemble casts, with nearly everyone delivering solid, unshowy work....with the exception of you know who.

"The Post", meanwhile, is a film I would describe as "functional", but also "unremarkable". It hits its marks for the most part, and the intrigue of its story is enough to keep it afloat much of the time. It's definitely weighed down on the performance side, though, as it has one of the best turns of Streep's recent career, but that's pretty much it.

Mitchell Murray said...

Although, since Robert brought it up, "Fury Road" was easily my favourite of 2015's best picture field.

Luke Higham said...

Mitchell: You could say that for everyone at this point.

Bryan L. said...

Mitchell: Fury Road is my favorite film of the decade actually.

Aidan Pittman said...

Luke: Not me... because I haven't seen it, or any Mad Max film, for that matter. :(

Luke Higham said...

Aidan: Ok, almost everyone. :)

Anonymous said...

Luke, in your opinion, what are the 10 worst Best Picture nominees of the decade

Louis Morgan said...

Regarding the Post, I originally thought I so disliked it largely because I was tired, but on re-watch I discovered the film made me tired. The more I think about the film though more I found it to be a perfunctory exercise that I came to hate. This as the film is basically this lame fan film as Spielberg's fan version of All The President's Men, that is basically this pathetic spinoff of that film. This being most evident that there is no reason the film should've been set around the Washington Post, when it was the NY Times story obviously. It should've been about how they broke the story then dealt with the fallout, rather than the second newspaper that did it. It's about the second because I'm sure Spielberg loves All The President's Men and wanted Ben Bradlee, though unfortunately that means we get Hanks at his worst in quite awhile, as I've been a big fan of Hanks this decade, doing that terrible Jason Robards impression, but hey at least it made me appreciate Robards way more. Okay, one can say the Katherine Graham angle, and I say "what angle", just waiting for a person to say "Sure" for an hour and a half...so compelling.

Worst of all though it is just a combination of the worst of Spielberg's modern tendencies. The obvious attempts at whimsy, like the goose in War Horse here we have the silly newspaper man with a box or the ongoing drinks sale. The over use and often poor use of Williams. The excessive accentuation of a point. (Example: Legal Lady showing support for Graham, good, a sea of admiring women as Graham leaves the court...come on. Spielberg laying it on thicker than a ton of concrete.) The man needs to do darkness again, something he's great at and so timid of. Maybe that could've been the "Kidnapping of Edgardo Mortara" sounded like a fascinating story, great casting in Isaac and Mark Rylance...but nah lets do this lame retread in a vain hope for topicality.

Regarding Spotlight I really don't get the derision that film gets, at worst its decent procedural, I think it is a bit more than that. I think it is a film that get an extra bludgeon because it won best picture. Baring No Country, and possibly Parasite, this has happened almost every time in the past 15 years or so, happens to some films worse than others. I'd say the worst thing that happened to Argo's rep was that it won best picture.

Luke:

I don't hate Green Book, never did, the race relations commentary is quite poor to understate, but I think the buddy road trip stuff is mildly enjoyable.

Matt Mustin said...

I rewatched Foxcatcher. Loved Tatum much more this time, liked Carell much less, felt exactly the same about Ruffalo.

The thing about Carell is I still don't think he's outright bad, but yes, he takes the wrong approach and the frustrating thing is with that script and that part he could have been completely amazing.

Aidan Pittman said...

Watched Hud for the first time. Certainly one of the most depressing films I've ever seen, especially the third act. Not quite sure what to make of the ending and some parts I found a little repetitive (though still well done), but overall its impact stands well and it works more than well.

The whole cast I loved, though Patricia Neal wining for Lead Actress is category fraud big-time, but she's still great regardless. Douglas was probably my favorite of the bunch.

Bryan L. said...

Louis: Your Top 15 Favorite Directorial Efforts of the 2010s?

Tim said...

Aidan your cast Ratings? (For one of my aboslutely favorite movies by the way)

Tim said...

also Louis, i just noticed that you have not seen Straight Outta Compton yet. A pretty normal but for me very entertaining Biopic, and i think that Jason Mitchell was pretty good.

Tahmeed Chowdhury said...

Bryan: This was Louis's previous list from John Huston's review for The Other Side of the Wind (although it was only for directorial efforts from 2010 to 2017)

1. George Miller - Mad Max: Fury Road
2. Nicolas Winding Refn - Drive
3. Martin Scorsese - Silence
4. Paul Thomas Anderson - Phantom Thread
5. Alejando G. Innaritu - Birdman
6. Christopher Nolan - Dunkirk
7. Paul Thomas Anderson - The Master
8. Dennis Villeneuve - Blade Runner 2049
9. David Fincher - The Social Network
10. Alfonso Cuaron - Gravity

Louis Morgan said...

Bryan:

Updated list:

1. George Miller - Mad Max: Fury Road
2. Nicolas Winding Refn - Drive
3. Martin Scorsese - Silence
4. Bong Joon-ho - Parasite
5. Paul Thomas Anderson - Phantom Thread
6. Alejando G. Innaritu - Birdman
7. Denis Villeneuve - Blade Runner 2049
8. Joel & Ethan Coen - Inside Llewyn Davis
9. Sam Mendes - 1917
10. Christopher Nolan - Dunkirk
11. Paul Thomas Anderson - The Master
12. Robert Eggers - The Lighthouse
13. David Fincher - The Social Network
14. Joel & Ethan Coen - The Ballad of Buster Scruggs
15. Alfonso Cuaron - Gravity

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Your top 30 Television performances list.

Aidan Pittman said...

Tim:

Newman - 5
De Wilde - 5 (co-lead IMO)
Douglas - 5
Neal - 5

Really great cast, all in all.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: You've listed Cumberbatch twice.

Louis Morgan said...

Well obviously because he's just that good.

Louis Morgan said...

Luke:

1. Bryan Cranston - Breaking Bad
2. Mark Rylance - Wolf Hall
3. Kyle MacLachlan - Twin peaks
4. Alec Guinness - Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy
5. Glenn Howerton - It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
6. James Gandolfini - The Sopranos
7. Liv Ullmann - Scenes From a Marriage
8. Ray Wise - Twin Peaks
9. Alfie Allen - Game of Thrones
10. Aaron Paul - Breaking Bad
11. Jackie Gleason - The Honeymooners
12. Kirsten Dunst - Fargo
13. Leonard Nimoy - Star Trek
14. Charles Dance - Game of Thrones
15. Oscar Isaac - Show Me a Hero
16. Jason Alexander - Seinfeld
17. Jonathan Banks - Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul
18. Giancarlo Esposito - Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul
19. Michael Richards - Seinfeld
20. Matthew McConaughey - True Detective
21. Woody Harrelson - True Detective
22. Bob Odenkirk - Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul
23. Bill Hader - Barry (Great potential for upward momentum)
24. Art Carney - The Honeymooners
25. Zach Woods - Silicon Valley
26. Benedict Cumberbatch - Sherlock
27. Rhea Seehorn - Better Call Saul
28. Will Arnett - Arrested Development
29. Michael McKean - Better Call Saul
30. Cillian Murphy - Peaky Blinders

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Which from that list do you intend to do reviews of in future.

Louis Morgan said...

Luke:

At the moment I am making no plans for after the bonus rounds, I'd rather focus what is more immediately in front of me at this time.

Luke Higham said...

Louis: Fair enough.

Bryan L. said...

Louis: Lastly, your #6-10 for Best Director 2019?

Wow, 2017 was a great year for “director” films.

Michael McCarthy said...

Hey everyone, I’m sure all of you have heard about the protests happening in the US right now (especially since they now seem to be all around the world). For those of you who don’t know, today is being called Blackout Tuesday, and so protesters are refraining from spending money, using social media, and watching content on streaming platforms unless it directly relates to the struggle of Black Americans. Because of this, I won’t be checking or further posting on this blog at least for today.

I don’t assume any right to tell others how to express their support for the cause, but since the people on this blog are so passionate about film and television I wanted to invite you all to take some time today to watch something that to educate yourself on the situation, even if it means putting off something else you were planning on watching. Examples on Netflix are 13th, American Son, Dear White People, and See You Yesterday, and I’m sure you can find others on other platforms. I myself will finally be setting down to watch When They See Us tonight. If anyone has any recommendations for me, feel free to DM me on social media. That’s all for now.

Tim said...

I just saw Dawn Of The Dead and thought it was just okay. It get me surprised well enough, but the score was kind of obnoxious if you ask me, and the actors were not really outstanding either. I prefered Zack Snyder's Version, and that one is not necessarily my favorite Horror movie either. I generally think that Romero is remembered more for how influential he was rather than the actual quality

Emge: 2.5
Foree: 3.5
Reiniger: 3.5/4
Ross: 3

Louis Morgan said...

Bryan:

6. Celine Sciamma - Portrait of a Lady on Fire
7. Alejandro Landes - Monos
8. Greta Gerwig - Little Women
9. Taika Waititi - Jojo Rabbit
10. Lulu Wang - The Farewell

Anonymous said...

Louis: your top 30 James Gandolfini acting moments